Starcraft 2 Thoughts: ZvT Nydus Terran's 3rd

Game 2 of Solar vs Yoda in "The Fight Before Christmas"

For some time I have been telling Zerg they should use Nydus for a lot more than cheesy sneak attacks inside opponents base.

While effective when it works, it relies on failure of opponent to have proper vision of their base to be successful, which fits my working definition of Cheese.

In contrast, using a Nydus to block Terran's Third, like this case, should at least delay expansion timing.

Not that blocking the 3rd was a significant priority in this particular case, it was probably intended more to make it harder to spot & target the Nydus.

But with similar timing, you could drop a Nydus at Terran's likely 4th base, have a Queen hop through and drop a Creep tumor or 2 and spread a lot of creep.

For more Blog posts & VODs on Nydus, just click the Nydus label, additional Labels can be found at bottom left of every blog post, and in the Label Cloud on left side of Blog.

SC2 Thoughts: Power of Queens x Nydus!

Life (Z) vs Stats (P)

Comments with Spoilers below:

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This was a well planned & executed counter to Stats play.

Few points I want to emphasize:

Life used a burrowed Zergling to provide vision for Nydus, this provides more tactical surprise, as well as being safer since what isn't seen can't be killed or pushed back.

Burrow is started at 10:15 at same time Life is getting a Zergling into Stats main for a complete scout.

The Zergling that provides vision for the Nydus is sent at ~13:13 game time link to that momment. 

Note:  In addition to that Ling, there are 2 others to either side of it, for total of 3 Lings, all burrowed, providing vision on the left side of Protoss half of the map.

Also, more importantly for that Nydus attack, the 2 additional burrow Lings provide vision in case Protoss tries to flank or surround the Nydus force.

At nearly the same time as the Lings on the left are being burrowed, Life sends a group of Zerglings around right side of map for both Scouting and attempt at another run by into Natural/Main (typical Life Ling Tactics).

Near end of the game, Stats does send a Probe or two to drop a Pylon near Life's 4th Base (Bottom Right) while the Nydus attack is in progress.

But realizes there is no way he can put enough pressure on there to win a base race and GG's moments after that Pylon finishes.

Starcraft 2 Thoughts: Roach Baneling vs Terran

Symbol (Z) vs Flash (T)

Very nice Zerg play!

A few significant choices Symbol made worth pointing out IMO:

• In his first attack, he made a point to focus down 4 Supply Depots (3 at third base, & 1 at wall in Natural), this supply blocked Terran for a bit.
• He also destroyed the 2 Ebays that were part of the front wall.
• He immediately withdrew after accomplishing these limited objectives (ie he didn't overextend).

I've blogged before about how strong Roach & Banelings with Air Support can be, see this TLO vs Satini game http://cliffsesportcorner.blogspot.com/2012/02/tlo-vs-satini.html, though I tend to favor Corrupters over the Mutas used here.

I prefer Corrupters because I feel they are more cost efficient vs Terran than Mutas.

Six (6) Corrupters will 2 shot Medivacs, so 6 to 12 Corrupters in early game, and in mid or late game Broodlords can be much more useful than Mutas.

Midgame I would use them more for harassment on certain maps that have dead air space behind bases.

You can fly 1 or 2 Corrupters behind a Terran base, and then upgrade them to Broodlord.

If you do that to 2 bases at same time, and have a Nydus network, you can drop Nydus in weak or undefended base with Broodlings providing vision & cover for Nydus.

Just click on the Starcraft 2 Thoughts Label for more posts like this, more Labels can be found at bottom left of every post and in Label cloud at left side of Blog.

Idra vs BounD

EG.IdrA vs BounD, on Entombed Valley, cast by Ipp from RageQuitTV.

Replay of this game at http://drop.sc/144693

Some of my comments, with spoilers, below the VOD.



I have thought for a while that Zerg is the strongest race in Starcraft 2.

I think once Zerg players figure out how to effectively use and coordinate their units and structures, Blizzard will probably have to nerf Zerg a fair bit.

I think this game provides some support for those opinions of mine, even though Idra made several strategic mistakes in this game, he still won pretty easily, his Protoss enemy made some mistakes, but they were far less obvious.  At least to me.

I don't think Idra fully understands yet, or perhaps he understands but doesn't have his build refined yet, using Mass Broodlords with Spine & Spore support.

I have covered this a bit already in Starcraft 2 Thoughts: Broodlords Support units Part 1 (ZvT focus) and in Starcraft 2 Thoughts: Broodlord Support Units Part 2 (ZvP focus).

Some of the keys points that I feel Idra missed, some which I have mention in previous posts, and some I have discussed with other players & coaches.

Not in any particular order, Idra should have done the following, in addition to the things he did correctly:

1. Expand TOWARDS the enemy, just like Meching Terran, for the same reasons a Meching Terran does it.  This keeps your newest & most important mining base as the most protected, because it is close to your powerful but slow moving Army.   This also makes your defense more cost effective, because your bases have less surface area.
2. More Queens for Transfuse and Creep spread.  This would make mass Broodlord with Spine & Spore support a LOT more efficient.
3. Nydus for defense and rapid support at the front, also to cross connect bases.
4. Massing Overseers for Contaminate of key enemy production structures!!!
5. Possibly Hydras, with Creep they are as fast as Stimmed Marines & Maruaders, with Nydus they can move from one side of the map to another instantly.  They also shoot up and down, so they can help defend Broodlords.  Also vs Protoss they dominate everything except for Colossus or HT with Storm, so after a big fight, Hydras will tend to dominate remaining Protoss Army, if you focus down Protoss Colossus & HT with Broodlords, the Hydras will clean everything else up! 
6. To many Infestors, Queens & Hydras are a better use of your supply.
7. Combined Harassment with Overseers + Nydus +Hydra/Ling 

 What should the Protoss player have done?  That is not so clear to me yet.

Some things worth trying:

1. Sentries and Hallucinate, I am not saying this because it was Idra, I think using them as a damage buffer, and to draw Fungals & Neural Parasite to waste Infestor energy.  As well as Guardian Shield & Hallucinated Phoenix scouting
2. Two or three Warp Prisms, with Prism Speed upgrade, one of the standard counters to a Meching Terran is drop play.  I think a Pair of HT for Storm Drops with an Immortal is best.  Immortal to provide Roach and Structure killer with Zealot warp in support, and when HT out of energy you could make them into an Archon.  One Immortal and one Archon with Zealots warped in, would be good at killing Zerg tech structures.  You could just do 2 HT and round of Zealot warp ins, and run away with Prism and HT.
3. More Observers.
4. With the additional Observers, and better Scouting, including Hallucinated Phoenix, Drops could be a lot more effective!  Know were critical tech structures and in base defenses are located.
5. Put down a Proxy Nexus or Assimilators at Zerg's likely 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc expos.  This will delay Zerg's Teching.  I really like putting Assimilators on all the gas at say 3rd & 4th, or 4th & 5th.  They only cost 75 Minerals each, but have 900 total HP + shield.  This also provides more Scouting information, and if Zerg is lazy, may pull whole army or big portion (ie One whole hotkey) to kill them.  Creating opening for a drop or attack from your main Army.

Morrow vs Hasuobs

I am definitely on a Morrow kick right now, so here is another Morrow game.

Morrow vs HasuObs, practice game from Red Bull LAN Orlando, cast by djWheat & Day9

A comment with spoiler below VOD



I am really liking Morrow's recent play.

I am big fan of Nydus play, part of the reason I like players like Morrow, Violet, & Zinger, is because they use Nydus play in a sophisticated, thoughtful fashion, not always just trying to sneak a Nydus into the enemy's base.

Morrow really shows that he is thinking about what he is doing with the Nydus in this game, he actually cancels his Nydus in this game to have more resources to defend the big push by HasuObs.

LiquidHaypro vs EternalSword

Haypro vs Sword cast by Duckvillelol




Spoiler Warning.

More Nydus, maybe a Trend?

If you want to see more Nydus play and discussion click Nydus.

That link can also be found in the Label Cloud at left side of Blog.

Learning Starcraft 2: Superior Nydus Play

I have been waiting for a long time for a pro to start using Nydus in a more correct fashion, instead of the cheesy sneak them into enemy's base, they should be used for Logistics (ie Unit Movement & Mobility) and Macro (Economy/Drones), and offensively to delay Expos, as well as spread creep, and gain map vision, especially with extra Queen or two that hope through and plant a Creep Tumor.

This practice game:  Morrow vs SaSe showcases some of the real fundamentals of correct Nydus play IMO.

If more Zerg start doing this, Terran & Protoss will have to start doing far more active scouting, much earlier in the game.

CSN VOD: Violet Showcasing Nydus Play

Violet from http://www.youtube.com/user/CyberSportsNetwork, more Nydus! 

Starcraft 2 Thoughts: What Happens if you Force Field all way around a Nydus?

Just saw WhiteRa get Nydused, and he used Force Field to limit area they could exit from that, I don't think he had enough Sentry energy for more.

But I asked what happens if you Forcefield all the way around the Nydus, WhiteRa said,  "they cant come"

Not sure if he meant they just get bottled up, or if it actually stops units from exiting the Nydus, he had started a game already by time Chat caught up & etc so couldn't ask for clarification.

Anyone have a VOD of Nydus surrounded by Force Fields?  If not I am going to have to find someone to test it to find out.

StartaleJuly Streaming!

Just saw a very nice nydus play by July, http://www.own3d.tv/live/173947/StartaleJuly