BabyKnight(P) v Grubby(P) - Entombed Valley - 8.11.2012
Cast by Ipp from RagequitTV.
I don't Blog mirror matches much, aside from Tournaments, in general Mirror matches revolve around Micro and slight differences in build efficiency.
Those skills are important in SC2, critically important, but personally I find that aspect of the game less than satisfying, this PvP is anything but boring, so shit back and enjoy!
My comments, with spoilers, below the VOD.
Cliff's Comments with Spoilers below:
I really liked this game.
Plenty of action, and decision making clearly made a difference, as well as the use of the Warp Prism.
I have thought for some time that Protoss players don't use Warp Prisms enough, and that they don't make enough of them either.
Grubby was using 2 Prisms at a time for at least part of the game, if he could have kept the first one alive longer, the game might have gone a bit differently.
This game is best game I have seen recently, I really enjoyed it!
GL HF
Showing posts with label prism. Show all posts
Showing posts with label prism. Show all posts
Monday, August 13, 2012
Thursday, July 12, 2012
Starcraft 2 Thoughts: Day9's Warp Prism PvT
Tuesday, March 27, 2012
Sunday, February 19, 2012
Starcraft 2 Skills: Prism Micro
This is a master level TvP game, featuring SoVAesir(T) vs DaySixLXG(P) cast by NanMan from Team LXG.
DaySix has some impressive Prism micro with his Colossus, that starts around 15:40 and continues through the rest of the game, on and off as needed.
I am a proponent of Prism play, especially with the Speed upgrade, and I think it is something that even lower level players can use effectively with some practice. They won't be as fast as a GM, but then neither will their opponents.
This game from DaySix reminds me of Sickness' Immortal micro, DaySix is a good player, but Sickness is a GM Protoss that has some really sick Prism Immortal Micro.
I am a fan of Sickness, just click on his name to see list of all my posts on him, you can also find that list by clicking on his name in the label cloud on left side of my Blog.
DaySix has some impressive Prism micro with his Colossus, that starts around 15:40 and continues through the rest of the game, on and off as needed.
I am a proponent of Prism play, especially with the Speed upgrade, and I think it is something that even lower level players can use effectively with some practice. They won't be as fast as a GM, but then neither will their opponents.
This game from DaySix reminds me of Sickness' Immortal micro, DaySix is a good player, but Sickness is a GM Protoss that has some really sick Prism Immortal Micro.
I am a fan of Sickness, just click on his name to see list of all my posts on him, you can also find that list by clicking on his name in the label cloud on left side of my Blog.
Wednesday, December 14, 2011
Kiwikaki vs Vibe
Looks like Kiwikaki is starting to figure out how he wants to play against Zerg in the current state of the game, with Warp Prism + Gravitic Drive for a very mobile Colossus!
Thanks to HDstarcraft for casting the game!
Thanks to HDstarcraft for casting the game!
Starcraft 2 Thoughts: Option Play, Elfi vs Ret
Thanks to Totalbiscuit for casting this game!
Elfi is an interesting player, he has some very strong ideas for PvZ, see this Elfi vs Idra game. I think his concepts could be applied against Terran, but I have not seen many games with Elfi facing a Terran player, so I am not sure on how his style of play works vs Terran.
My comments (Spoiler Alert) below the VOD.
This game was carefully planned by Elfi, the first poke he does at ~7:09 looks to me like complete feint, I think he is doing it to cover his Natural that is warping in, only timings I see, are the Nexus about half done, and Hallucination was timed to be half done when Elfi's units reached the edge of creep or Choke leading towards Ret's Natural!
I think besides covering the Natural going up, it was a complex scouting maneuver to force a reaction from Ret. Doesn't look to me like he planned for the Pylon to finish, unless there were no units at all for defense perhaps.
By Poking out, and dropping a forward Pylon, Elfi forces Ret to make a decision on how he is going to defend with the push if Elfi follows through, committing to a tech path, in this case Roaches. Perfectly timed with Hallucination being finished, as the units return to Elfi's Natural, and he immediately creates a Hallucinated Phoenix to see what tech path Ret has chosen. Letting Elfi pick precise Offensive plan he wants to use against that Zerg army. Brilliant!
I suspect if there was nothing more than a couple of lings for defense, Ret likes to Macro hard, Elfi might have canceled Hallucination, and let the forward pylon finish. Following through with Zealot/Sentry attack on Hatch at Natural while force fielding the ramp.
I am certain though, that he had two or more specific plans already in mind, and picked one based on the tech path/army composition Ret committed to. This is called, in NFL Football, an Option Play, were you have more than one offensive plan ready (and prepared for with supporting elements), but decide which one to use based on what enemy does or seems to be doing.
At ~11:57 he moves out, with a very carefully planned push, he had scouted and faked a push earlier, now he pushes out, and carefully puts a forward Pylon just inside the Xel Naga Tower's vision, so later in the game if Ret trys a backstab or counter attack now, Elfi will be able to see it.
This push is really what gives Elfi the winning edge in the game, and I believe it was carefully planned out, for the reasons described above. But also note how thoroughly the creep was cleared out, in addition to all the damage that was done to Ret's Gold Base & units!
Elfi uses the Warp Prism to build on, or exploit, the advantage he achieved with his Option play in the early game. For a small mineral investement he is able to keep pressuring the workers at Ret's 4th, which Clears the Defense, for attacks on Ret's Tech at his main, as well as another attack on Ret's Gold base.
Very elegant strategy IMO.
GL HF
~Cliff
Elfi is an interesting player, he has some very strong ideas for PvZ, see this Elfi vs Idra game. I think his concepts could be applied against Terran, but I have not seen many games with Elfi facing a Terran player, so I am not sure on how his style of play works vs Terran.
My comments (Spoiler Alert) below the VOD.
This game was carefully planned by Elfi, the first poke he does at ~7:09 looks to me like complete feint, I think he is doing it to cover his Natural that is warping in, only timings I see, are the Nexus about half done, and Hallucination was timed to be half done when Elfi's units reached the edge of creep or Choke leading towards Ret's Natural!
I think besides covering the Natural going up, it was a complex scouting maneuver to force a reaction from Ret. Doesn't look to me like he planned for the Pylon to finish, unless there were no units at all for defense perhaps.
By Poking out, and dropping a forward Pylon, Elfi forces Ret to make a decision on how he is going to defend with the push if Elfi follows through, committing to a tech path, in this case Roaches. Perfectly timed with Hallucination being finished, as the units return to Elfi's Natural, and he immediately creates a Hallucinated Phoenix to see what tech path Ret has chosen. Letting Elfi pick precise Offensive plan he wants to use against that Zerg army. Brilliant!
I suspect if there was nothing more than a couple of lings for defense, Ret likes to Macro hard, Elfi might have canceled Hallucination, and let the forward pylon finish. Following through with Zealot/Sentry attack on Hatch at Natural while force fielding the ramp.
I am certain though, that he had two or more specific plans already in mind, and picked one based on the tech path/army composition Ret committed to. This is called, in NFL Football, an Option Play, were you have more than one offensive plan ready (and prepared for with supporting elements), but decide which one to use based on what enemy does or seems to be doing.
At ~11:57 he moves out, with a very carefully planned push, he had scouted and faked a push earlier, now he pushes out, and carefully puts a forward Pylon just inside the Xel Naga Tower's vision, so later in the game if Ret trys a backstab or counter attack now, Elfi will be able to see it.
This push is really what gives Elfi the winning edge in the game, and I believe it was carefully planned out, for the reasons described above. But also note how thoroughly the creep was cleared out, in addition to all the damage that was done to Ret's Gold Base & units!
Elfi uses the Warp Prism to build on, or exploit, the advantage he achieved with his Option play in the early game. For a small mineral investement he is able to keep pressuring the workers at Ret's 4th, which Clears the Defense, for attacks on Ret's Tech at his main, as well as another attack on Ret's Gold base.
Very elegant strategy IMO.
GL HF
~Cliff
Sunday, December 11, 2011
Starcraft 2 Skills:PvT Warp Prism, SaSe style
[Couple of Edits for Clarity 12/11/2011]
In his written comments for this VOD, Day9 states that "PvT is widely considered to be the hardest matchup in the game."
Note early in the VOD, what Day9 says about getting to a specific look, I think of that as my Goal, Plan, or Strategy, I want to get there no matter what path I have to take to get there. So the enemy is forced to react to me.
If I can force the game into my Strategy, then I have an advantage, since I have practiced my Plan more than other ways of playing. Ideally your main opening/build order should force your enemy to play the kind of game you want. Or failing that, at least prevent enemy from forcing you into your weaker styles of play.
Warp Prism play works to Pin enemy in base like DT or Cloaked Banshee pin the enemy in base. The Warp Prism is a stronger Pin, because of Warpgate technology, as long as the Warp Prism is kept alive, you can reinforce attack quickly. And there is always the threat of a Backstab attack.
It is also the only strong Pinning attack I know that doesn't require gas, SaSe's style does use Sentries, but WhiteRa does Warp Prism play with Zealots.
The mobility of the Prism also allows for warping Zealots in the rear of attacking enemy, allowing Zealots to kill reinforcements, or attack enemy army from rear. So it provides a defensive Force Multiplyer.
Final point, Drops can follow Phoenix Play as a safe transition to strong Colossus/Zealot late game (Terran will have to make more Vikings than normal, or Thor to counter Phoenix, making Chargelots stronger).
Part 1 below, Part 2, Part 3. My Comments below VOD.
One additional Tactic of Warp Prism play, if you have enough Sentry energy for the number of Force Fields needed, that works well as a follow up to dropping mineral line. Is to push at the Natural, to draw the enemy to the front, Force Field choke at enemy's Natural so they can't counter attack & Force Field the Ramp [Edited to add "The Ramp" cut it out by accident in a revision, sorry. Cliff], then drop/elevator/warp into the main with the Warp Prism.
This is more difficult to do, but it is stronger because of that complexity. It also has elements of Yin/Yang, which I find appealing. You show an attack to the enemy to provoke a response, then fade away from it and attack enemy where he is weak. Or another way of thinking of it, from Martial Arts, is attacking enemy where they are weak.
By poking at the front, you will be forcing enemy to respond to you the way you want to, so you are controlling the enemy. If they refuse to be drawn, you can simply attack the Natural while Force Fielding the Ramp, the standard play.
You can also try as a fallback plan if you attack the Natural, but the enemy's army is to strong, and you advanced to far (overextended attack) to retreat. Not likely to work, but if your going to lose your units anyway, it may be worth trying.
That is very difficult to pull off, I don't recommend trying it on purpose though, unless your High Masters or above. Rather it is just attempting to make the best of a bad situation. Zealots are very good at killing workers, and take time to kill.
In his written comments for this VOD, Day9 states that "PvT is widely considered to be the hardest matchup in the game."
Note early in the VOD, what Day9 says about getting to a specific look, I think of that as my Goal, Plan, or Strategy, I want to get there no matter what path I have to take to get there. So the enemy is forced to react to me.
If I can force the game into my Strategy, then I have an advantage, since I have practiced my Plan more than other ways of playing. Ideally your main opening/build order should force your enemy to play the kind of game you want. Or failing that, at least prevent enemy from forcing you into your weaker styles of play.
Warp Prism play works to Pin enemy in base like DT or Cloaked Banshee pin the enemy in base. The Warp Prism is a stronger Pin, because of Warpgate technology, as long as the Warp Prism is kept alive, you can reinforce attack quickly. And there is always the threat of a Backstab attack.
It is also the only strong Pinning attack I know that doesn't require gas, SaSe's style does use Sentries, but WhiteRa does Warp Prism play with Zealots.
The mobility of the Prism also allows for warping Zealots in the rear of attacking enemy, allowing Zealots to kill reinforcements, or attack enemy army from rear. So it provides a defensive Force Multiplyer.
Final point, Drops can follow Phoenix Play as a safe transition to strong Colossus/Zealot late game (Terran will have to make more Vikings than normal, or Thor to counter Phoenix, making Chargelots stronger).
Part 1 below, Part 2, Part 3. My Comments below VOD.
One additional Tactic of Warp Prism play, if you have enough Sentry energy for the number of Force Fields needed, that works well as a follow up to dropping mineral line. Is to push at the Natural, to draw the enemy to the front, Force Field choke at enemy's Natural so they can't counter attack & Force Field the Ramp [Edited to add "The Ramp" cut it out by accident in a revision, sorry. Cliff], then drop/elevator/warp into the main with the Warp Prism.
This is more difficult to do, but it is stronger because of that complexity. It also has elements of Yin/Yang, which I find appealing. You show an attack to the enemy to provoke a response, then fade away from it and attack enemy where he is weak. Or another way of thinking of it, from Martial Arts, is attacking enemy where they are weak.
By poking at the front, you will be forcing enemy to respond to you the way you want to, so you are controlling the enemy. If they refuse to be drawn, you can simply attack the Natural while Force Fielding the Ramp, the standard play.
You can also try as a fallback plan if you attack the Natural, but the enemy's army is to strong, and you advanced to far (overextended attack) to retreat. Not likely to work, but if your going to lose your units anyway, it may be worth trying.
That is very difficult to pull off, I don't recommend trying it on purpose though, unless your High Masters or above. Rather it is just attempting to make the best of a bad situation. Zealots are very good at killing workers, and take time to kill.
Friday, December 2, 2011
Starcraft 2 Skills: PvT Beating Bio with Phoenix & Drop
Puma vs Hero game below for illustration, cast by NanMan, note this is not a DreamHack game.
My comments are below the VOD. I will also be referring to some of my earlier Starcraft 2 Skills posts: Clearing defenses for Drop, and PvT Beating Bio.
This is a follow up to my previous PvT Beating Bio post, the previous post covered a DT/Zealot approach. This covers a Phoenix opening, with a high level game that clearly illustrated the opportunity that Phoenix play can create. I think of this as a Phoenix/Zealot approach.
I like the Phoenix play, seems like Protoss in general are starting to realize the power of the Phoenix. They are one of the very few Toss units that can be effective in small numbers. Other main unit Protoss has that works well in small numbers is the Dark Templar of course, see PvT Beating Bio for some of my thoughts on DT. I think a very strong case can be made that most Protoss builds should involve early Phoenix or DT.
Phoenix play generally gives Protoss control of the Air, which creates a weakness that can be exploited by drop play. After his successful Phoenix harass, Hero should have gone Robo for Warp Prism, instead of the Twilight Council into HT that he did.
With a Warp Prism, Hero could have done Zealot drops into the main, to build on the success of his Phoenix play. Followed by Colossus if needed for late game. That would have been a LOT stronger.
At ~11:33 in the Puma vs Hero game above, Hero starts a Twilight Council which costs 150 Minerals 100 gas 50 seconds to build, he could have got a Robo for 200 Minerals 100 gas 65 seconds by just delaying the probe he started before the TC.
At ~12:47 Hero does another attack at the main with 6-7 Phoenix, which is completely successful. But imagine how much more damage would have been done if he dropped 4 Zealots into the main to support the Phoenix! He would have only been risking cheap (mineral only) units, additionally the Zealots would have been able to provide rear guard if needed to save the more expensive Phoenix!
Note, even unsupported the Phoenix were able to camp in Puma's Main till ~14:06 with even 4 Zealots supporting the Phoenix in the main Puma would have had to pull most or all of his army.
I really think that would have easily been GG, since Hero would have been able to at least deny Puma's 3rd, maybe even kill the Main or Natural with Force Field block of the ramp. I can't see any real obvious defenses for Puma to Robo into drop play if it started at the 12:47 mark. I got this idea from the game I covered in Clearing defenses for Drop.
Even if defended, it would have given Hero time to get Colossus out, with more than enough Phoenix to deal with any realistic numbers of Vikings that Puma could have produced. And a serious economic lead.
Subtle Tip: if Hero had followed Phoenix play with Warp Prism drops, it would have been very efficient to get Air Armor Upgrade at the Cybernetics Core. Not only does this benefit all Air Units (including the Prism), but it gets more value/use out of the Core, and provides a high value use for Chronoboost.
It would have been a better choice for the Minerals/Gas than the +1 Attack Hero startred at ~11:32 right after +1 ground Armor finished (also same time he started Twilight Council).
The only Protoss units that benefit significantly, at least against Terran, from attack upgrades are Dark Templar & Immortals, and to a much lesser extent Colossus. A Phoenix actually has more life at 120 HP/60 Shield than a Zealot 100 HP/ 50 Shield.
GL HF
~Cliff
My comments are below the VOD. I will also be referring to some of my earlier Starcraft 2 Skills posts: Clearing defenses for Drop, and PvT Beating Bio.
This is a follow up to my previous PvT Beating Bio post, the previous post covered a DT/Zealot approach. This covers a Phoenix opening, with a high level game that clearly illustrated the opportunity that Phoenix play can create. I think of this as a Phoenix/Zealot approach.
I like the Phoenix play, seems like Protoss in general are starting to realize the power of the Phoenix. They are one of the very few Toss units that can be effective in small numbers. Other main unit Protoss has that works well in small numbers is the Dark Templar of course, see PvT Beating Bio for some of my thoughts on DT. I think a very strong case can be made that most Protoss builds should involve early Phoenix or DT.
Phoenix play generally gives Protoss control of the Air, which creates a weakness that can be exploited by drop play. After his successful Phoenix harass, Hero should have gone Robo for Warp Prism, instead of the Twilight Council into HT that he did.
With a Warp Prism, Hero could have done Zealot drops into the main, to build on the success of his Phoenix play. Followed by Colossus if needed for late game. That would have been a LOT stronger.
At ~11:33 in the Puma vs Hero game above, Hero starts a Twilight Council which costs 150 Minerals 100 gas 50 seconds to build, he could have got a Robo for 200 Minerals 100 gas 65 seconds by just delaying the probe he started before the TC.
At ~12:47 Hero does another attack at the main with 6-7 Phoenix, which is completely successful. But imagine how much more damage would have been done if he dropped 4 Zealots into the main to support the Phoenix! He would have only been risking cheap (mineral only) units, additionally the Zealots would have been able to provide rear guard if needed to save the more expensive Phoenix!
Note, even unsupported the Phoenix were able to camp in Puma's Main till ~14:06 with even 4 Zealots supporting the Phoenix in the main Puma would have had to pull most or all of his army.
I really think that would have easily been GG, since Hero would have been able to at least deny Puma's 3rd, maybe even kill the Main or Natural with Force Field block of the ramp. I can't see any real obvious defenses for Puma to Robo into drop play if it started at the 12:47 mark. I got this idea from the game I covered in Clearing defenses for Drop.
Even if defended, it would have given Hero time to get Colossus out, with more than enough Phoenix to deal with any realistic numbers of Vikings that Puma could have produced. And a serious economic lead.
Subtle Tip: if Hero had followed Phoenix play with Warp Prism drops, it would have been very efficient to get Air Armor Upgrade at the Cybernetics Core. Not only does this benefit all Air Units (including the Prism), but it gets more value/use out of the Core, and provides a high value use for Chronoboost.
It would have been a better choice for the Minerals/Gas than the +1 Attack Hero startred at ~11:32 right after +1 ground Armor finished (also same time he started Twilight Council).
The only Protoss units that benefit significantly, at least against Terran, from attack upgrades are Dark Templar & Immortals, and to a much lesser extent Colossus. A Phoenix actually has more life at 120 HP/60 Shield than a Zealot 100 HP/ 50 Shield.
GL HF
~Cliff
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